I have to say that my experiences in the Canadian military have been very memorable. The training environment is not what it used to be (in the old days). People are respectful of each other and everyone helps one another. This can be seen even more on some of the isolated bases where the military communities stick together and keep busy through various activities and programs. Sports, organized games, cooking classes, parties, activities for kids, anything you can think of is provided to members and their families. Therefore, you will not be bored because there is always something to do outside of work (or school).
In my case I was happy to receive very professional training, learn a second language and live an adventure of my life. If you're looking for a challenging and rewarding career Canadian Forces might be the place for you.
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59 comments:
Thanks for taking the time to write this all down! Very helpful!
So where did you end up going in the CF?
Unfortunately I wasn't able to complete Phase II training and ended up releasing. I was offered some different positions but none of them suited me.
So are you back at your old job now ?
Yes, I went back to computer programming. That's what I was doing before I joined.
Hey Martin, I've really enjoyed your blog. This is currently the path that I am on, should a DEO spot become available.
I do have a few questions for you if you would be so inclined? Do you have an email address where I can contact you? You can contact me at eclipse_gsr@hotmail.com
I would really appreciate advice from someone who has been there.
For what it's worth, I used to live in Nepean, we probably have at least one mutual friend.
Hi Martin, thanks alot for posting your time in the CF here.
I was wondering about what jobs you were offered before leaving the CF, and why you weren't able to finish Phase II.
I don't remember the exact options but I could've transferred to army or switched to engineering. However, since I only signed up to become a pilot nothing else interested me. I had difficulting passing the navigation phase. My biggest issues were with hand-eye coordination and memory. Numbers would skip my mind whenever I was under a lot of tasking.
Thanks for the quick answer, I hope to be a pilot in the Canadian Forces, going for the DEO route.
When you applied did you have to wait for a DEO slot to open up or were the readily available to you?
Yes, I had to wait. At that time (2005) there were two intakes per year. I waited about 6 months. I'm sure the recruitment office will be able to answer this question better though. Good luck!
Hi, what degree do you hold and which university did you go to?
Thanks
I graduated from Carleton University in Ottawa, with Engineering degree. But any 4 year bachelor degree was sufficient in order to enter as a DEO Pilot.
Hey Martin,
Awesome blog man. Much appreciated read. It's nice to be able to see a detailed front to back look behind the curtain so to speak. Gives me a lot to look forward to (should I get through ASC and get offered a spot that is).
Real bummer about having to release. At least you got to have some awesome experiences. Out of curiosity, how come you didn't look at going into commercial flying afterwards?
Thanks
Shawn (shawnc_t@hotmail.com)
Hey Shawn,
Thanks for your kind comments. You ask why didn't I go into commercial flying? Basically I realized that it's a very competitive career (takes a long time to make good money) and you're away from home half the time. Since I wanted to start a family this would not be an ideal job for me.
Martin
I would also like to add my thanks for allowing me an insight to the career my son is about to embark on. Since he isn't really chatty, it is nice to have a picture of some of what he is experiencing.
Thanks so much for creating this blog. A great way to get another opinion on life while training to be a pilot in the Canadian Forces. It sounds like you've had an amazing journey, I can't wait to apply and hopefully start mine.
Hey Martin,
This blog is a must-read for every aspiring Air Force pilot. Thank you for putting it together. You did a huge favour for all of us out there who needed an insider's view.
I am on the same path now. I'm only still in 3rd year university, but this is what I think about day and night. Would you have time for a few questions? You can reach me at subasioglu12@gmail.com.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. Cheers. Mark.
Martin,
Thank you for your blog, very informative! Can you please send me an email to rell.greg@gmail.com regarding a few questions I'd like to ask.. that is if you have time to answer them.
Thanks
Thank you so much for posting this blog Marty, it was very eye-opening and no B.S. I am currently in my last year getting my Bachelor of Commerce and am strongly considering applying to be a pilot in the CF. However, my main concern is that, I would want to be a pilot and nothing else in the Air Force. Assuming I get selected and, worst case scenario, fail some courses, what would my options be? Could I opt to leave the CF altogether if they deemed me unfit to be a pilot? I don't want to end up on the front lines or anything if I get locked into a contract. You said they offered you a couple other positions, does that mean that you were able to turn those down and choose to leave the CF? Your insight is much appreciated, thank you for sharing your experience!
Thank you so much for posting this blog Marty, it was very eye-opening and no B.S. I am currently in my last year getting my Bachelor of Commerce and am strongly considering applying to be a pilot in the CF. However, my main concern is that, I would want to be a pilot and nothing else in the Air Force. Assuming I get selected and, worst case scenario, fail some courses, what would my options be? Could I opt to leave the CF altogether if they deemed me unfit to be a pilot? I don't want to end up on the front lines or anything if I get locked into a contract. You said they offered you a couple other positions, does that mean that you were able to turn those down and choose to leave the CF? Your insight is much appreciated, thank you for sharing your experience!
I wouldn't worry about being pushed into another profession if you don't make it through the pilot training. I'm the living proof that they will not force you to any other career, unless you choose it yourself. There were others who didn't make it (at different stages of the training) and most of them simply got out. The real contract starts once you get your wings. After that it would be more difficult to get out before its end, because you have to repay in service for all the free training you got.
Hi Martin,
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all this down for us. I know you're being asked that a lot, but I'm about to go do the selection in Trenton and I would have a few questions regarding the tests.
amoreau@hotmail.com
Thanks again
Hi,
This was a great blog. I'm doing some preliminary research and this was immensely helpful.
I'm married and have a 10-month-old daughter. I'm wondering a) how long I'd need to be away from them for training and, more importantly, b) what the lifestyle is like upon graduation? Would I need to uproot my family over and over? Will I be away from them for long stretches of time?
I guess to sum it up, is this a career for someone with a family?
Hi Anonymous! You can definitely do this having a family. I've met a lot of guys who already had kids when they joined, some had them during training.
Those with families have some extra benefits like priority for PMQs (military housing), as opposed to single students who live in the barracks.
During some phases of training you will be away from them, but whenever this time is longer than a few months the family will move with you. The military is very good at carring for the families. That's what I've noticed.
The main thing for you is to discuss this with your wife. She needs to know and accept that sometimes you might be away for weeks if not months. It all depends on what you gonna fly and where.
Good luck!
Thanks very much for such a prompt reply. I have two follow up questions if you don't mind.
I have a BA and an MA, though I've completed all the OAC math and science courses. (I switched my plans for a BSc. at the last minute). Can you talk at all about the math component to the training? I have serious concerns when a trained engineer finds it challenging. How would I fare?
Also, in what is hopefully a less serious - though still potentially detrimental - challenge to my success...I'm a terrible swimmer. I am more stone than human. Will they be pulling me from the bottom of the pool to tell me I'm done, or is there some leeway there?
Thanks. Once again, this blog was incredibly helpful.
Hi Anonymous! With your qualifications I wouldn't worry about the math component. Definitely reviewing some basic math is a good idea. I don't remember the specifics anymore but you should know how to do fractions and basic algebra. Like calculating a side of a triangle for example. Check the forums at army.ca, you'll find a lot of useful info there. Also, I heard that there is a sample test on the air force site as well.
As for the swim test you'll be ok. There were people on the course that couldn't swim and they passed. There is a part where you have to tread water for 2 mintues (with clothes) and then swim a short distance. Everybody passes this stage.
Hi Martin, I am currently in the recruiting process and with any luck I'll be going to Trenton soon (currently finishing up some medical testing). I was wondering how hard this stage was and if there's anything I should know to help me get through it. My recruiter said the pass rate is incredibly low so this has me fairly worried.
Thanks
I'm not sure why the recruiter said that. I don't remember the pass rate being super low. Most guys made it through, there was a few that didn't but got offered navigator positions.
In any case, it's a really cool experience to go through this selection process. You will be asked to fly a cicuit in a simulator and this part gets difficult for some ppl. Just remember not to chase the dots on the screen but fly your headings. Good luck!
Hi Martin!
I've recently decided to change careers and go with my initial love of flight. I am a trained video editor, and I have a private college diploma. Would I be required to attend military college or get a 4 year University degree before my training or is there a clause for us private college folk?
Thanks
Cody
Hey Cody, unfortunately I don't think a college degree would suffice. As per their eductional requirement for DEO "a degree in a suitable discipline from a Canadian university, or an equivalent recognized degree from a foreign university or education institution". But have a chat with a recruiter as there might be something they can do for you. Good luck!
Hi Martin,
I just want to thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed report on your experience in the RCAF. I found it extremely helpful and informative.
I'm strongly considering a career as a pilot in the RCAF. I just finished my studies from university here in Canada with a bachelor of arts degree in art history (I'm sure thats unusual for a potential pilot).
I'm just considered about the entrance test (aptitude test), because I have no recent math education other than highschool which was 7 years ago.
Is it possible to pass that portion of the test for someone like me ?
Definitely! It shouldn't matter what university program you went through. The student pilots I have met (which are now successful pilots in the CF) have come from all kinds of background. For example, one was a bar tender with a university degree in psychology.
The aptitude test is not difficult nor is it rocket science. BUT, it's multiple choice questions which can be tricky at times. It's difficult to design a multiple choice test that's not too easy. So they make it a bit tricky. Make sure to read the question carefully a few times AND check every possible answer. Start off by eliminating the ones you're sure are wrong. Some times two answers might be right but one is better than the other. So make sure to go through all a-b-c-d and think about each one separately.
Here is a sample test from the CF website: CF Aptitude Test
You can also read the army.ca forums about what people have to say about the test: Forum Links
Good luck and definitely try it out. I did all my applications and tests while I was working. Once got accepted then I made the decision to quit.
Such an informative experience report, a rare thing to see from start to finish within a military occupation ! Its fantastic.
Can you give any tips or more detail about the initial interview you had to go through ? As in, what were some questions asked, how long it was and do they tell you on the spot if the interview went well ?
I would like to consider this route as a potential career choice but I'm nervous about the interview, because now that I think about it , I don't exactly know what to say other than the cliche "its always been a dream for me to be a pilot" ... etc.
I do honestly love everything aviation and high altitude related, that thrill is like no other.
There's nothing wrong with saying "it's always been my dream". That's usually how it works for pilots. We love it from the first time we see a plane in our life. If I was hiring a new recruit it would be something I would expect to hear... and more. How much do you actually love it? How are you involved in it?
Because you want to make it clear that this is what you're signing up for. So that they don't waste your time (and their time) trying to assign a different career option for you.
I believe they will ask you for two other occupational choices on the application form (in case you don't get pilot). Just put down pilot 3 times.
I don't remember how long the interview was nor that it was difficult. Only one question caught me off guard and it was related to using a firearm, something like: one day you might have to use your gun on another person. How do you feel about that?
Best way is to treat this interview like any other. CF website actually has a good reference page on how to prepare for it.
Step Five: Interview
Good luck and remember that you can always give it a try and if you're having hard time during the bootcamp (or there's something else you don't like) you can still change your mind then.
very informative blog indeed. I would like to ask couple of more questions. 1)How long does it take to train from start to finish i.e from BMOQ to Wings 2) What is the success rate while in training.
thank you !
Hi there, in terms of how long it takes to get your wings... let me put it this way. If all the courses were back to back, i.e. basic 3 months, phase one 3-4, phase two 6-10 and phase three 4-5 then you're looking at less than 2 years. However, there are waiting lists to be placed on course so it ends up more like 2.5 years. And that's assuming you're bilingual because if you're not, you might need french or english training (up to 6 months) before starting to fly.
Success rate is pretty good once you're past first phase. Around the time I was going through it was more than 90%.
Again, I don't think this should be of your concern. If you love flying it's definitely worth giving it a shot. Otherwise you'll never know.
Excellent blog. It's unfortunate I didn't come across this sooner as I find there's a shortage of 'real' information out there. I've been seriously thinking of applying and probably share the same concerns as other blog readers. I have a BA (one course shy of the BSc from a last minute drop) and currently doing a masters (business quantitative). Two questions
1. does having credit for graduate university classes help or hurt your chances?
2. although I read earlier in your blog that when they need people, they need people, I've heard that nowadays community service is more of a prerequisite in being selected. Im curious to hear your thoughts.
thanks again and best of luck to you
Hi Spencer,
Definitely not. Graduate classes or degree will not affect how you're ranked. We were all in the same pool of Direct Entry Officers. No one ever made a distinction, not even in the admin paper trail or later in the selection process. All that is left behind and the military trains you the way they want you to be trained.
As for community service it would definitely help. If not for being selected then down the road when they brainstorm your next posting. I don't think it's a big prerequisite though.
Best of luck to you too!
HEY sir, great stories! This will help the future pilots. It's nice to have lots of ideas about what would come ahead of us. It's not always being able to read as complete information as this. Thanks.
I have lots of questions.. I hope you can answer
When you said you did not want to go commercial flying after service in the military because of the competitiveness, does that mean being an experienced pilot from the military does not guarantee you benefits when you decide to become a commercial pilot?
I assume the personal life was good as a pilot in the forces, did you have good relationships? What were some big obstacles pertaining to this?
How come you decided to leave? Would it affect your personal life by not being able to be around the family that much serving in the military? What rank were you?
What does it take to become a fighter pilot? I heard it's the most rarest and competitive, this really brings me down as the dream is to become one as for everyone's because of obvious reasons. The chances seem very low, but can you tell how to I guess improve the chances of being selected to pilot jets?
Thank you for your time and thanks again for the stories, I will be reading more than once.
Justin, aspiring adventurist.
Hi Justin, to really answer these questions for yourself you'll need to just do it. Read through all the pages of my blog as I touch on most of these points (check the comments too). After that if you still have some pressing questions just send me your email and we'll chat :)
Hello Martin,
Great Blog really helps to give the impression of what one gets into when he/she enlists to be a pilot.
I find myself similar to how you started off in the fact that I too live in montreal worked in an office but always wanted to fly.
I just had two questions
I have a university degree in Finance however is there a specific GPA requirement or grades or do they only look at the diploma.
and two,
Can you provide some details on the salaries throughout the different phases of training,
as in during 2nd language, manitoba flight training and moose jaw etc...
Thanks!
Hi Marcos,
There were no minimum GPA requirements when I was going through but obviously you want to try your best to get the highest grades. Completing your studies is a requirement though. You must have a completed university degree to be accepted.
As for the salary it doesn't change much during the training phases and it's probably around 50K. The real jump happens after you get your wings.
You might wanna talk to your recruiter about paid education, depending on where you are with your schooling. The Forces will pay successful recruits to complete a Bachelor degree program at a Canadian university. You can read more about this at: http://www.forces.ca/en/job/pilot-32
Good luck!
Thanks Martin,
Well I actually finished my degree two years ago just didn't have good grades.
I will see a recruiter and discuss the possibilities.
Im married now and paying a mortgage which is why i was concerned about the salary during training after basic training.
but if its 50k that is very reasonable.
I understand that after you have your wings you have to do 7 years of service what happens if you quit after 3 or 4 years for instance your family needs change can you quit?
Thanks a lot for answering the questions its been a lot of fun reading all about your blog.
I've never heard of anyone terminating their contract so I'm not sure exactly how it is done. The word was that in extreme cases it is possible but not very easy. In any case, it takes at least 6 months to release and it helps if you have another job lined up in the civi world.
Your family should definitely be on board with your new career plans. Without their support it will be difficult for all of you.
Hi Matin,
I spent hours reading your amazing blog, I wanted to thank you for sharing your experiences, its very helpful since I'm applying for pilot in the Canadian Forces
Anis (anisbjj@gmail.com)
Great blog Martin, sorry you were CT'd. You hit the nail on all issues, and although I went through the system in the 80's, things have not changed much. Any bachelor degree is required now, when only high school was back then, and OJTs are longer so process takes longer from enrollment to wings (it used to be 2 to 3 years, now it can stretch a lot more). Any normal smart person with basic math can pass the math portion, even Arts Majors! Overall positive attitude, confidence and personality will do more to succeed at the interview and tests. Tip: if you are kind of shy type or introverted, suggest you look into the Dale Carnegie course before... or if too expensive, at least read his book "How to make friends and influence people". CF are looking for officers and leaders first, so confidence and self-image is important. Also, while you can stand firm on wanting to be a pilot and nothing else as you go through, I would not recommend you play that card too overtly on entry. Keep it subdued. Good luck! Per Ardua Ad Astra!
Hey Martin. I'm actually going to be graduating from Carleton Engineering in a couple of months and hopefully going on PFT in the summer. I'm just curious how you were able to get an OJT posting to the CSA? I've tried to contact the CSA but haven't been able to get any information about that. Anything you can tell me about that would be really appreciated!
Hey, that's great you're about to graduate. It's possible that this OJT option no longer exists, as I remember they talked about closing it. There's nothing you can do before hand anyways so just wait when the time comes and ask for it. Once you're done basic you'll have more info on who to contact etc. In your letter to the commanding officer you have to be specific on why you want this position. In your case you're a good candidate because of your education (a lot of engineers work there). Good luck!
Hey Martin!
I seriously appreciate your blog so much. I've been thinking about doing something with the Forces for a few months now and it keeps popping into my head. I want to become a paramedic and I also want to get my Majors or even Masters in History at some point in time. My only thing that I think about is Can I do it? Am I capable enough? All these doubts pop into my mind and things that people have said to me. Their doubt become my doubt. I know I really shouldn't let something like that affect me either. At the same time, I know it would be a rewarding experience and I could really have a future with it. I was in Army Cadets for about a year (when I was a kid though... ) and what I got from that and from what I remember I did like it and I appreciated it. So I guess what I am getting at is what were you're initial feelings when you got there and is it just me or does everyone or some ppl go through these same sort of thoughts as well?
Either way, thanks for everything and going through all that you went through and then posting it all on a blog!
Cheers,
Katrina
Hi Katrina,
Your feelings are perfectly normal. I had doubts myself and even though it didn't work out for me I don't regret one bit for trying it out, something that took over 3 years. It was thanks to my mom who said to me those simple words "you will never know until you try, and if you don't you'll probably regret it later in life". I have to tell you that almost everyone had these feelings, and almost everyone made it.
My plan was to go in and if I don't like it (or can't make it for any reason) simply leave during bootcamp. My thinking changed radically once I started. I realized how much fun I was having and more importantly that I was able to complete the bootcamp.
Military profession is not much different then any other (while you're in the country). You have a job with regular hours, for most people Mon-Fri. Posting last usually around 3 to 4 years. As long as you're OK with moving around the country when your posting changes and living in small communities then there's nothing to worry about :)
Hello,
Thanks for writing this blog. Spent my night reading it instead of studying for my math exam lol. I am a 17 year old girl and I aspire to becoming a commercial airline pilot but I have decided that I will go through the forces first. This way I will get great training, have amazing experiences (hopefully flying jets) and will be more desirable for hiring by airlines. I plan on going through the new CEOPT program with the forces. I was just wondering if you think I will realistically be able to complete all the training and if you think that I would be able to work for an airline after serving for the required 7 years? Thanks :)
Hey, it's difficult to say if someone will make it through the flying courses and other training without knowing much about the person. However, seeing how you enjoyed the blog tells me you are very excited about the military experience. That was my reason for writing it, so that others could make out their mind on this big decision. You probably already know my answer which is yes, definitely give it a try because you have the same chances like everyone else. Speak to a local recruiter to get more up to date info. I'm sure you'll be hooked after your first visit :) Good luck!
Hey Martin, awesome blog, sorry to hear you were CTed. A couple questions; how many hours did you end up with in the cockpit? Did the 7 year of service start from your bootcamp or was it to start at the conclusion of all your training?! 10 years ago I was thinking of it and wasn't ready for the commitment. A successful career in education later I'm still wondering if I should have become a pilot. I've head recently that a friends old.colleague stated bootcamp at 42 and is now in the process.
Also, what can you say about relationships with girls why in training?! Chances to meet girls on weekends?!
I ended up with just over 100 hours. The contract length is counted from the end of your training, once you get your wings. Chances to meet women are just like anywhere else. Keep in mind the flight training takes place in smaller towns so the number of people there is definitely less. On the other hand less destruction helps in training ;)
Hey Martin.
I have put my mind in a good place and I am certain I am going to make it as a helo pilot. AFter I finish my upgrading, I will be around the same age as you were when you started the application process.
I didn't do very good in school, so I need all the help I can get. You said in phase II you didn't do good with nav, for remembering number and what not. Are you able to point me to an example so I can start practising that, even though I am very early to think of this I think that I would have the same problem and hopefully with practive over time it will be a bit easier.
Hopefully you still check this. If you have to e-mail me my e-mail is Justtin_stokes@live.com
Thanks for this awesome blog and any future help!
-Justin
Hi Justin, I will definitely say that any prep work I did before joining the military didn't help me much (memory exercises, flying lessons, etc.). I've realized that my memory just sucks, especially when working under pressure. Trying to fly and perform all the calculations while the instructor was intentionally yapping in the back just didn't work for me. But that's me and that's why I didn't make it. If you really want to practice try any of the hidden numbers/symbols/letters games, where you see them exposed and after they are covered you need to find them (or write them down). You get the idea. At least this will tell you how good your memory is when not under pressure :)
Hi,
I can't believer I've never seen this blog before. Thank you for giving us a taste of your amazing experience!
I was wondering : what if you had a spot as a pilot, but not as a fighter (multi' or heli')? Would you have been able to refuse?
Thanks!
The release process is the same for everyone. You will always have the option to quit but they don't make it easy (definitely takes some time, up to 6 months of waiting for approvals). I've never met anyone who released *after* getting his/her wings so not sure what the process is then. The sooner in training the easier it is to get out.
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